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1998 Week 13

Bye Week Episode

( 54:06 )

The 2004 Patriots earned a first round bye in the playoffs, so we thought we'd take a bye week from the 2004 season to go back in time to 1998. Is Andy still salty that Dad took Greg to this game 24 years ago? Is Greg still a shit about it? Was Steve late showing up this week? Yes.

Join the brothers as they go back to the pre-dynasty days of Drew Bledsoe and Pete Carroll as the Patriots play host to the Doug Flutie led Buffalo Bills in a game that was one for the memory books.

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This is Christine Brown, and while I have to listen to this podcast as my motherly duty, you have the choice not to. My sons sometimes say some naughty things when they're trying to be funny, but really,

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they're just being stupid. You still want to listen? Go right ahead. I am not your mother. Welcome back to the Page of Stantasy podcast. The only podcast I would have to assume, where we are going back and rewatching every game

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of the Patriots dynasty starting in 2001. We have finished the 2004 regular season. So if you want to listen to those, you can go back and listen to that. Um, but since pages have a bi-week, we thought we would kind of take, like we

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do traditionally our bi-week and do something a little bit different. Uh, so this time Greg has convinced us to watch a random game that is important to him and really only him. That's not true. That's not true at all.

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In this family, a legendary game. Oh, this, no, it's important to dad. He was there too. That might be. And it's our grapes. That's exactly important to me because I was first on the list to go to this game, but I was overruled by McBrown

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And he brought Greg instead and it turned out to be an instant classic So Greg what game are we talking about? 1998 week 13 Patriots versus Bills Also known as the Terry Glenn Hail Mary interference game Ben Coase touchdown Vinditary two point conversion game

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spoiler Yeah, that's the game. Yeah, all right. Well, I don't know if anyone calls it that though I feel like the name is generally a little shorter It's a bit old you call it Steve. I don't know. I don't remember this game that much

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I remember being sort of excited, but this is us pretty young Yeah, I remember being super fucking salty. I think it's a good escape. Yeah bad Andy Reason why though? I believe the reason why is because I had been to data taking me to a Red Sox game

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And that was the last game that anybody had gone to so Well, you're probably the first one to go to a Red Sox game too Well, yes, I went to Red Sox game before you guys were born. So yes, that is correct. There you go

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And Craig was the first to go to a Patriots game probably this this is your first game right? Well, technically I went to a Patriots game as an infant. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In the early 80s, when grandma or grandmother came over mom's mom, and from what

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I understand, this was the time when the Patriots were an absolute shit show. And they, you know, early 80s, so it was all bunch of controversy going around. I think there was something to do with one of the female reporters getting harassed in the locker room. Yes. And so the fans were passing around.

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blow up dolls like inflatable sex dolls around the crowd like you do with beach balls. And so my parents decided that was a good idea to bring grandma to very religious woman. From English. Very British.

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Yeah. And so I think me and grandma ended up in the car in the parking lot and grandma got to see a handful of people just peeing in between cars. Well, the game was happening. Well, they brought not just grandma to the game. They also.

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run infant. Right. Yeah, I was there as well. So nice family outing, which I think kind of says a lot about the fact that we're doing this podcast now, maybe it can't be worse than an English soccer game, which I'm sure grandma would do. That's actually a good point,

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Greg. Yeah. I heard way, ruder and seeing way more gross stuff and soccer game growing up. Yeah. It's definitely less violent. And like, you know, World War II. Yeah. And also I think the one thing that American sports is missing are.

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are the the chance. Oh, yeah, Americans are not good at chanting. That whole section was in that Patriots dynasty book you send me Andy. Mm hmm. The guy who did the Tiger was one, I forget his name. So I'm super generic. Jeff. Yes, it was.

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Jeff Howling. I know I'm so bad. Jeff Benedict. That book was sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't, if you haven't read it yet, I recommend it. Hello. You had a hard time getting through the 2007 season part of it.

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Oh yeah, but read it just like the opening is there the opening is about Drew blood so in his injury And it's it's a fascinating read which is good context for this game because he has an injury in this game till correct

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Yeah, so Greg tell us about what we got going on here in to in 1998 picture Six and five Patriots versus seven and four bills. Yes Yes coming down the playoff scenario stretch here. Correct. Pat's trying to make the playoffs.

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I guess they had a super dramatic win on Monday night rolling into this game. Yeah. Yeah. Does that game have a name? Yeah, remember that. The Drew Bledsoe finger game. Yeah. This was the game where Drew Bledsoe engineered a last minute come from behind

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to touchdown drive while in the middle of the drive breaking his index finger in two places. on the helmet of his somebody, an aquature who. And still managed to throw a game winning like 20 something you're a touchdown

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right at the end of the game. Sean Jefferson. Yeah, a great case. You had a clip of it. Yeah, we'll post the highlights of that. This whole game was on YouTube, right? Sure. This whole game was on YouTube.

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Did you know watch it? I did. I watched it in two different YouTube's. One was a little more stretched out. Yes, but I had the whole game and the one that was normal size didn't have the fourth quarter.

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Which is what was that? It is. Should we talk about some names because there's a whole shitload of throwback names. Can we just rattle some off here? Hang on. Hang on. Before you do that, I just want to touch on a bit more of the context.

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This was when the AFC East still had the Colts in it. And so there are one, two, three, four, five teams in the ACC East. Four of them would make the playoffs this year. The Patriots were the four seed.

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in, or I will succeed in the AFC at nine and seven bills were the fifth seat at 10 and six Miami dolphins for seed also 10 and six in the New York Jets, the second seed in the AFC at 12 and four. So this is like the last time the Jets were actually good.

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Mm hmm. This is probably the last time the Jets. Yeah, because they have Curtis Martin, just running over everybody and just being an absolute beast for them. Correct. That is absolutely show the highlights of the Jets game earlier the day during the broadcast.

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And he has like 140 yards. Yeah. That's some sick runs where he just runs away from everybody. Yeah, that was Pete Curtis Martin in 1998. So I believe that was the year that he left, correct? Yes.

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It's gotta be right around there, yeah. It was. No, this was the year. This is the year after. Yes. And then they drafted Robert Edwards, who also was having himself a year. This might be Pete Carroll's second to last year, right?

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Because it's Pete Carroll, the coach. Pete Carroll is the coach. I don't remember exactly when he left, but yes, we can Google him. Fact check it, bro. All right. Give me some names. All right. Drew blood. So Robert Edwards, Sean Jefferson, Terry Glen, Ben Coates, Bruce

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Armstrong, Dave Wallabaugh, Chris Slade, a bunch of guys who have already heard of before, Willie Clay, Chad Eaton, Bucky Jones, Chad Eaton, and of the bills, Doug Flutie, Antoine Smith, Sam Gash, Andre Reed, Eric Moulds, Ted Washington, Bruce Smith, Sam Cowart.

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Yeah. Thurman Thomas is on this team. Yeah. So this is like the sum of the remnants of those four Super Bowl Bills teams. Yep. I thought it was crazy. How many players in this game and also in a lot of the games like we're watching this

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year? Really? I mean, it's not that crazy. But even like even last year, 2003, Tyla Antoine. Yeah. Bruce. Yeah. It's amazing how much overlap there is with, you know, Doug Cluey, played for the Pats,

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same gash also played for the Pats, Ted Washington. And Antoine Smith would go on to play for the Pats. Doug Flutey. Yeah. He'd come for the past. He actually was already on the paths once. Right? Yes. He had played for the pets already. They showed that

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took him with the sick flow. He had a fucking. Yeah. They actually, they actually showed us that where Doug Flutey was undefeated at Foxboro Stadium coming into this game. Yes. He was three and oh, Boston College in

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1983, two and oh, Boston College in 84, four and oh, with New England in 88 and one in oh, in England, 89. And this is undefeated 10 and no 10 years. Yeah. So 10 and no. This would be his first loss in Foxverse stadium. Yeah. I mean, Doug Flute is a shit. Everyone loves him.

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Again, a damn respect. This game was very watchable because you were like rooting for Doug Flute a ton, even though he's the bills quarterback. Yeah. It's one of those things like can't be mad at him. He plays out of his mind on this game, too. He does. Yeah. He throws like 340 yards.

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He's always said this is. Yeah. This is week 13. And they said he's been sacked five times on the season. He's also 36. Yeah. He's not a spring chicken. In this game, he's 36 years. 36. That's right. Cause he spent all that time in the Canadian. CFL. Yeah. Yeah.

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He must have been lit in the CFL, right? Just running around people. I believe he was like there, Michael Vick. Yeah, for sure. You won the comeback player of the year this year. Yeah. No way. And then wait, was this the year that,

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what was it later on where, no, it must've been later on when they had the Brad Johnson stuff and like they kept trying to start Brad Johnson. Yeah, that's the next year with the, the loss of Tennessee, the music city miracle.

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Yeah, all right. So this is the last time that bills are good too. Yes. It's very recently. Yes. Yes. That's tough. All right. So the other couple names for you, the commentators, burn Lundquist and Randy Cross.

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Did you hate them, Andy? Of course I did. But speaking of commentators, I would just like to share something for you boys that I think you might like. We have a birthday today. 1971, the St. Louis Cardinals drafted a fierce 290-pound competitor named Dan Dirdor.

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Dirdor have headed an offensive line that yielded the fewest sacks in the NFL for five straight years during the 70s. This relentless right tackle punished would be defenders, whether the Cardinals chose to run or pass.

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I always thought that I went through my years in the NFL like I had blinders on, like I was a racehorse. I saw nothing but the upcoming game and my upcoming opponent. I really had the ability to rule everything else out and make it inconsequential.

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Dirdor would be denied only one pro ball appearance from 1974 through 1980, securing his place in pro football history. So there you go. Have a birthday to the legend who is Dan Deodorant. See in the parable.

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Oh, the Hall of Fame. No, I think we talked about season hall of fame for broadcasting. Right. Yeah. I think Hall of Fame. Yes. Which is worse. I can't believe it's on your audience. Way worse.

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I guess he kept those blinders on. I love the games that he's accommodating. I love it. So yeah, that was just for you boys. like that. That's such bullshit to keep the blinders on. Like any break. He was clearing

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some holes in that highlight clip though. They were okay. I mean he was blowing 70s football. 70s football. Yeah. He was just letting black people play back then Steve Jesus Christ. All right. Let's talk about this game then Greg. Actually I need to ask you this. Get

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you watch the game. Probably watch the beginning and then the last. Obviously watch the game live so no big deal. That's probably a touch on TV. like that little fucking TV. 50 yard line, no big deal.

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Oh, God. So he didn't watch it. Is it? He watched the highlights and the notes. I don't need to watch it again. Once you've seen it live, no. What do you remember? What do you remember actually from this game?

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Yeah. Oh my God, Andy, you should have this crowd. TV doesn't do it justice, but it was like being there. They were loud. It was incredible. They got ready. I don't know where we got tickets from.

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How far up are you? I don't know, like those were lower ball. Oh, no, shit. So they're really good for even have lower bowls, but it was just really really good seats. Yeah, I mean, dead. I think I sat in the same seats for the Cardinals game, my first

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Patriots game. Yeah. 2000 and life, 2000 and what? Eight, six, eight. Yeah, 2008. Yeah, it was like the Mac hassle season. Dad went on for decades before taking me to a Patriots game. I mean, that feels bad, right?

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Two. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Middle middle son who cares. I took him to a Bruins game. That's fine. Well, you were as emotionally invested as I was the for sure. Yeah, you are your way into it. Oh, yeah.

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I was going to that point. Yeah, because I went to the game in 97 as my first Bruins game. That's about the center. Yeah. Yeah, makes sense. And Andy was a Red Sox son. Andy is Red Sox son. I was a Bruins son.

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You were the Patriots son. This is true. Yeah. I got pulled out of dad told me fifth grade and took me to a Red Sox game. That's sweet. Taking you out of school. Yeah. Like three three three rows up from like just behind a home plate like where they.

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Um, the, the netting is just outside the netting. I think you got him from a guy work. I'm going to do that. One, two, one, two, one, two, one. He said dad, this is the best day of my life. And he still remembers that and brings it.

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I used to say that too. I said, this was the best day of my life. No, I was like, yeah, that's fine. I did write a book about it though. I have a book I wrote about the trip to, and I have the still to, I

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still have the ticket. Hell yeah. The things you remember. So take your children's sporting events, even if they're the 83 Patriots. And they're passing around. Yes. Bull of dolls. Yeah. Then you're conservative British grandmother has to leave at the infant and go sit in the car while your parents finish the game and has to watch people just take pisses around around her.

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Tough life. Speaking of football. The game is sweet though. I don't blame mom and dad for not leaving because this game was awesome. Yeah. Well, yeah, this isn't the one that I never had. Yes, this game.

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It was kind of the peak Drew Blutsoe, I would say. This is where he kind of made his name as the Patriots Savior at the time because he was that larger than life. Playing with, I think, pins in his finger at this point.

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Had to bandage up in the commentators were talking about how he didn't even keep his hand warm because he was getting colder in the game. Greg, how cold was it? 43 degrees. How cold did it feel? Do you remember being cold?

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No. I was shit based drunk though. You were like seven. You think about the denver game? I was drunk on love of the game. And of course, yeah, nothing good. It made me cold. But yeah, so I and like I said, last week, he had on Monday night

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and against the Dan Marino dolphins. He had an engineer to come back. And with a broken finger and Pete Carroll tried to call a timeout and Drew Bludzer didn't even notice and he kept on going and threw the winning touchdown.

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Or ignored him. That's a big broadcast, which I really appreciate it. I hope he ignored him. So do I. If we ever have Drew Bludzer, one will ask him if he ignored Pete Carroll on that play. Yeah, and threw a touchdown to Sean Jefferson.

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Some great names. And then did not practice this entire week, they said, through some warm up passes just to see if he could in the pregame warm ups. And what did they say? Steve, do you remember what they said about it?

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About how they were watching it? No, I said they, I heard they didn't take a snap all week, but not what they said. Yeah, but then they're like, oh, everybody was watching his pregame warmups like I don't

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even know what it was. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They were the sunlight game. Awful analogy, but whatever. It's good radio there, Andy. They broadcast it on Instagram. Everyone was very. I'm trying to set Steve up for like some interesting knowledge, but apparently he didn't fucking

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watch the game either. I watched the game. I watched most of it. I watched until that YouTube video right now. And then I watched the last two drives. Those scored in the pages scored. If my first game, I had to watch Scott Zolak play.

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I probably wouldn't be here on this podcast right now. Not really. at the Boston Globe for the day before and the day after the game, or the day of the day after the game. Sweet. And there was an article about like, is this Scott Zolak's time to shine because he's,

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this was his contract year. Yeah. His contract is going to run out the end of this year. And he'll be a free agent and you know, he's had like zero starts basically up until this. He's just played like mop up duty.

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And so you know, is this his time to show that he can be a starting quarterback and go make some starting quarterback money and free agency. Um, spoiler alert, the answer was no. It was not because the shine.

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Correct. Well, he does become 30 years later when he's someone caught him snorting lines on live radio. What? I did not hear about this. Oh, well, how long does this? I don't know. I don't know.

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Don't let it leave this bug. We'll be bad out. Complete. True. And the other place one more year after this. So maybe there's something to that. Yeah. I think just correct case. But in true Drew Bludsof fashion his first pass of this game deep bomb floated to the free safety picked up

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Oh, yeah, it was like two on one. He threw it to the one guy. Yeah, I can't ignore with that I mean, he's got a broken finger. You really can't yeah, it floated on I mean the second one probably should have been picked off but that floated on him too. So it ended up

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It took him a little while to find the touch but he found the touch for when he did. Yeah Game Hunter. Come on. Absolutely. So yeah, this was a quality game that's kind of started off a little slow. It was all bills early and apparently these two teams have played two weeks before.

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And the bills had basically just stomped the Patriots. They rushed for, yeah, 213 yards or something ridiculous. I guess everybody's like, oh, they're going to do it again. There's Thurman Thomas and I don't know if he's a rookie, but a young Antoine Smith,

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like prime Antoine. He was awesome. Yeah. And he was, he was your typical Antoine that you would expect that you probably remember from 2001. Exactly. He's the same guy except faster. Yeah. Yeah.

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But, you know, he was the kind of their short yardage back. And at this point there, he was in Thurman Thomas is like the third downback kind of guy. Thurman Thomas is like, it's going to be one of his last seasons.

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Yeah. I think he goes one more season with the dolphins after this is last season with the bills. And then he's done. I did not know Thurman Thomas played for the Dolphins. One year he did guess.

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Where else did Ben Coates play? Trivia. Oh, I don't know. Hint, he won a Super Bowl with his team. What? The Broncos? No. Oh, the Ravens. The Ravens. Oh. Also Sam Gash won a Super Bowl on that same team.

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Oh, shit. No, shit. Good trivia. That is great trivia. I like that. Nicely done. Speaking of Ben Coates in this game, though. Wait, so how many rings does Ben Coates have? He has just the... One or one.

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Just a... one with the Ravens. Wow. Yeah. The old Ray Bork, spinach shit ton of time in New England, then leave an immediately went championship. Yeah. Hey, I'm sure everybody's happy for them at the time.

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Well deserved. Yeah, got to do it. For sure. Speaking of Ben Coates, though, he had himself a game in this. Oh, yeah. Was, you know, pre-Gronk and he looked like it. But the commentators were all about how much he pushed off.

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Yeah. Talking about how the defensive backs don't know if they need to like train in Taekwondo or lift weights or whatever to be able to cover Ben Coates because all he does is run at defenders, hit him, bounce off and then turn around because he's open.

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Yeah. It was a take on tight end names. Okay. Best best names in football now. I got a couple written down here before you answer. The single syllable sick last name. Okay. Ben Coates. Jay Reemerzma. That's the one I was going with. Rob Gronkowski. Pat Fryermuth.

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Harry the barnyard dog. Barnage. Who the fuck is that? Okay. I'll play for Cleveland for that. You had one good fantasy year and everybody. I just love the name the barnyard dog. That's really good. Barney Ron Rutledge. Yeah, dude. I was. Tell me there's a term in Wiggins.

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I still think. fullbacks have better names. Oh, yes. Strong. Sam Gash. Natron means. Natron means. Oh, business. Went to the same college as Ben Coates. What college? I go to a living stone college.

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All right. Living. Where is that? North Carolina. It's HBCU. All right. Where North Carolina is it? I don't know. Don't you live in North Carolina, Greg? Yeah, I never heard of it. I read it, but I didn't.

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It was, did not. I didn't even know living stone was a college year. I don't even know if it still was a college year, for being honest. It sounds like a stat check then. He's from Henderson bill though, which is a pretty popular place.

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All are New England. Patriots fans will know all about Henderson. North Carolina. Was that a... Patriots fans got fans everywhere. And you know how many Patriots fans are in North Carolina Andy?

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Yeah, like seven. No. Dude, we have a bar. Oh my God. Who's the other? Who's the other. The other Patriots player that lives that they're all time Greg. Yeah, Antoine Harris. Yes. Yes. Yes.

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Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And it fell legend. If he wants to come on the part, we will definitely have an arrows on the boat.

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No, you just fucking slammed North Carolina like that. Yeah, from there. I'm slamming you, not. You Andy, okay, nature on means. They try means business. They try and refried means. That's a good one.

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That is good. Ben went to. Prefer that over nature means business. And all time. Birmingham. Yeah, they try and refried. Also, I tried to look up the. I went for Sam gash. Oh, no. No. And nothing out there.

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So are you coming up with the engra? I need a list. I know you have a list. Come up with a single thing. All right. Speaking of running backs, let's talk about Robert Edwards. Because he was supposed to be.

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And at, I think this specific year, 1998, he was. The second coming of. Uh, it occurs Martin. Yeah. I had a thoughts, 13 touchdowns. I thought that that Robert Edwards was my original David Givens.

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Hmm. Yeah, I can see that until I heard that. And then you cast them aside. I was trying to find the guys that everybody loved, but that were like up and coming and those really in on both those guys.

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Yeah, that would have done it. Cause he was good this year. He was okay in this game, but like if Robert Edwards had played in today's game, he'd be really good. You know, he'd catch the ball. He could catch a ball.

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He's pretty shaky in the hole. He didn't have that like Antoine Smith type power. true, which Curtis Martin sort of did. Yeah, the first round. Yeah, I picked out of Georgia. Yeah, he also started his career with a touchdown in six straight games.

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The first six games, just go to Russian touchdown. 13 touchdowns for rookies. No joke. No, you got to work in the prom. Please clearly pro bowl because he went to go to the pro bowl. Right. That just didn't.

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He didn't go to the pro bowl. Wait, how did he shed his knee? Yeah, it was like some fucking event. Like he was actually on the pro bowl roster. He just went to this fucking beach party pro bowl thing that they were doing.

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No shit. Yeah. I thought it was on the pro bowl. And that's how he showed his knee. Makes it even worse. He didn't even make the pro bowl. That's tough. That is tough. Do you want to hear what his injury was?

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I doubt it, but I don't know it was a gross of it so There's also some interesting name so the guy that threw in the ball Was noted dickhead Charlie batch Through a fucking so it's his fucking fault. Yeah, I joke a better ball. He probably doesn't

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And Charles Woodson went out for it. It was like he got tangled up with Charles Woodson on a beach obviously on the other story Yeah came down hyper extended his knee. He tore his ACL his MCL in his PCL and partially tore his LCL

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What the fuck I didn't know that segments in there. Yeah, what is a what those that's basically every limb every limit in your name Oh, he had major nerve damage. And the worst part was that he sliced an artery in his knee.

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So they were talking about amputation. Yeah. Yeah. So they said if the sutures hadn't held on the way to the hospital, they could have sutured it up that they would amputated and he never would have walked again.

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Holy fuck. Oh, we see him again in. Yeah. He comes in. Yeah. Yeah. No, with the dolphins. I think it was like, oh, two maybe. Dude, he came back. played a couple seasons in the NFL. Didn't really catch on.

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Then went to Canada and 2000 yard seasons for a lot of all Argonauts. Fuck yeah, good for him. No way. How's exciting? Came back on the patch and then they immediately cut him. Go back to it. You gotta give him another look.

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If going through that rehab, that's gotta be an absolute insane rehab. Two years. Yeah. I mean, that's gotta be so painful. Like, oh. Well, in the book that Steve was talking about, they're talking about the Drew Bledso injury and it was.

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He basically had blood in his lungs. Yeah. And so they may have like, usually when things like this happen, you have to like cut open the pec muscle to go in and like kind of clean things up. Or what maybe wasn't in like, it was like around the lungs, it was like collapsing the

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lung. And so what they tried to do is basically just like, they put a tube in and pump the blood out of his lungs and back into like where it was supposed to be. And days if that didn't work, they would have had to like cut in and like.

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go get it, but then that would basically be the muscles that you use to throw football and he never would have played again. So he was like inches away from never playing football again. That's how that book in a little bit. Kyrie Irvin's taken like six to seven maintenance

🎙 00:29:07.839



days of season. It's like Jesus Christ. You just get to not get vaccinated. It's a play after games. Yeah, he doesn't get to play games in Brooklyn anyway. That's why he's doing it. Jesus Christ. We have true buds. I got this game out though.

🎙 00:29:23.399



Yeah. Yeah. And that's like, no one ever said Drew Bledsoe's not tough. Like I was a tough motherfucker. He just took too many shots like Ben Roth's burger. Yeah, he was just one of those guys who, yeah, he could, he just, I feel like his pocket

🎙 00:29:38.937



awareness always let him down. That's a good point. And then he would try to do to, I mean, how many, he took a couple of sacks. He took four sacks in this game. And I'd say at least two, maybe three of them were preventable.

🎙 00:29:57.757



Or you could just throw in the ball away, but he's like waiting for something to happen. And waiting for something to happen takes a second. Oh, come on, man. They're offensive line was great besides Dave Walla bar.

🎙 00:30:14.045



Well, a lot. A lot of time doing good name right there. Dave. Well, I have the offensive line. Let's take a look. Sounds like we're all strong. Yeah, Bruce is. He's also on the right side. Yeah.

🎙 00:30:22.805



Well, yeah, it was him versus Bruce. Back. I have. Yeah. They've been going mad for fucking decades. Oh, yeah, exactly. Damien Denson, who I believe was starting his first ever game at left guard, Dave Walla bar, Todd Ruchi and Max Lane.

🎙 00:30:35.005



You remember Max Lane? Yeah. Also a great name for an offensive lineman, Max Lane. No, you don't want to run behind a guy's Max Lane. OK, no, you want to pass rushing against guy who's Max Lane. Exactly.

🎙 00:30:48.965



Right to the quarterback. Yeah. You want to run behind that maximum lane, but drew blood. So in this game, 28 of 43, 246 three touchdowns, one pick for sex. Not too shabby. I mean, he's a dog flu.

🎙 00:31:01.645



You know, how many Russian guys did Robert David's have? Because it was pretty much on true, I feel like 13 carries 40 yards. Yeah. That's all true. They had Sam Adams, who's an absolutely massive.

🎙 00:31:15.871



Ted Washington. That was tight. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, he was strong though versus Bruce Smith. Yeah. Okay. This is the peak of their battles. Is it? Yeah. Bruce Armstrong made the Pro Bowl in 90, 90, 1, 94, 95, 96, and 97 currently in 98.

🎙 00:31:29.671



Bruce Smith. his fucking career is insanity. He made the pro bowl in 87 88 89 90 92 93 94 95 96 97 98. And first team all pro in 87 88 90 93 94 95 96 97. Bruce Smith was our says this on the backside the back nine of their careers though.

🎙 00:31:50.071



Like not both of really like coming in they're about to go into their back nine but they both have made the pro bowl the last four years. Yeah for both Smith. from 86 to 98. Now there was one year where he didn't top double digit sacks.

🎙 00:32:19.626



All time leading sack later. 200 sacks. He wasn't that big in this game though, right? No, he didn't do a lot. Bruce Armstrong. He got he got one half a sack. Our Bruce got him on this one. Yeah.

🎙 00:32:40.143



1990 had 19 sacks. 19. Oh, he didn't even 200 for his career. And to put it in reference of like a play, a modern day player that you'd recognize, the white Frini at 126 and a half. Oh, yeah. So 300 sacks.

🎙 00:32:53.683



A fucking ridiculous number. Yeah. KION showers at 15 minutes and at some point is not. I'm labeled. Yeah. The bills always had good players. I mean, they're receivers in this game were so good. You know,

🎙 00:33:11.563



they had some of the awesome names in their receiver. It was like Andre reads 200 catch. Some shit like that. Some like that. No, 220 games for Andre read. Oh, yeah. So it hurts molds on your other side who was being covered by

🎙 00:33:23.901



Tyla. And on the first play the game, Tyla went over and dapped him up. I saw him kind of like shake hands before the first play just kind of, you know, He had that absolutely sick catch. Yeah. So that was, that was an amazing ground.

🎙 00:33:39.381



Yeah. It was touchdown. Yeah. The 85 yard touchdown where he kind of one hand snagged it between tie law and the safety. Yes. And I'll ran the other safety for an 85 yard touchdown. But he caught it like it wasn't like the tip of the ball hit his palm.

🎙 00:33:56.455



It was like the flat part of the ball hit his palm. He just kind of like grabs it like a bunch of bananas and then just runs. Just snagged it one hand. And then he's just gone. just outruns everybody.

🎙 00:34:11.155



Tyler's busts an ass can't catch him. Yeah. Which I mean, Tyler, this is, I think, Greg, peak. Tyler's well, yeah, Tyler's absolute seven picks coming into this game already. And it's week 13. Yeah.

🎙 00:34:21.292



So pick every other game. Didn't know that. They're deep. They're D-Lawn is kind of nobody's alarm backers. Had some names. Secondary had two Hall of Famers. Yeah. And then some of the no names.

🎙 00:34:33.032



Steve Israel. And he's all over this broadcast. Oh, you remember him, dude. And he's the guy that was from Jerusalem. Yes, Greg. Oh, oh, yeah. Now that you said that. There's also Michael Lombardi in the

🎙 00:34:47.512



halftime show. Oh, yeah. Is that he is I think he's come full circle and it's back in the media, but he was on the Patriots from the Patriots. Yeah, Patriots general man, or something along those lines. Yeah. Yeah. He was that's a tie up in the Patriots front

🎙 00:35:08.377



office. Yeah, he was. It's kind of crazy to see him on the halftime of a 1998 show. Right. I know. Yeah. And the halftime show was way better because they actually showed highlights, you know, they went game by game and showed some highlights from the important

🎙 00:35:24.977



ones. Mm hmm. Oh, we didn't have Keisha and Johnson just running his mouth for fucking 35 minutes. It's not even 35 minutes. It's like 35 seconds to go repack the commercial. Yeah, just making up what he's going to say in the spot. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

🎙 00:35:39.577



That sounded like the buy right. One of the other big notes in this, I don't know if you guys noticed, was there was a huge push to bring back replay? Yes. So I looked that up real quick and apparently like instant replay had been around for a

🎙 00:35:52.263



long time. But it was disbanded in 1991 because the technology basically couldn't keep up with it. It wasn't great. So there seemed to be a lot of push and Steve going back to your point of like they actually

🎙 00:36:07.543



showed replays. Let me write it down. Ok. at halftime. The highlights rather the highlights a lot of them revolved around. Here's a play that would have been overturned if there was replay but it wasn't and it affected the game

🎙 00:36:22.623



in this way. So it worked out in the Patriots favor I would say in this game because the Patriots on their game winning drive had a borderline completion to Sean Jefferson Greg was he in? Or are you even close? The problem is you can't tell it's such crappy video quality.

🎙 00:36:34.867



That's what I'm saying. Yeah. With the with the fee that I had I'm like I'm going to look at this I'm going to I'm going to bring it to Greg and be like hey look you can tell that this pixel his foot is in bounds.

🎙 00:36:55.507



But you couldn't tell because both feet were one pixel. So I'm not actually sure, but there was such an uproar that I assume it looked pretty clear to me that I didn't have a speed in. And of course it's so hard because you're a pessimist.

🎙 00:37:05.178



Yeah. And you hate the Patriots for some reason. I said I couldn't tell. Maybe you guys should get your eyesight checked because it would seem pretty obvious to me. Not that. Well, you were sitting at the 50 yard line,

🎙 00:37:20.318



we're watching it fucking YouTube. That's true. And years later. Fans were a chatter about it. I bet all that. Craig. I could see it from my seat, dude. So, yeah, in some replay, we were brought back in 1999, the season after this.

🎙 00:37:30.338



Probably because of, I think, all the focus on all the plays that would have been overturned if there was a joke on them. Just go watch that Saints NFC Championship game. Yeah, it doesn't fucking matter.

🎙 00:37:46.930



Right. Oh, if this play had gone differently, maybe the game would have gone differently. We've come full circle again. Yeah. That should show there was instantly played though, and they still didn't even look at it.

🎙 00:37:57.850



Yeah. Yeah. That was fucking crazy. That was tough. So let's talk about this fourth quarter because this is like if you're going to watch a game or you're not going to watch highlights just watch the end of the

🎙 00:38:08.930



like the fourth quarter. Yeah, ten minutes left. Yeah, bills marched down basically from the start of the fourth quarter onwards. March down on a let's see 14 plays 67 yard touchdown drive helped out by two three defensive penalties a

🎙 00:38:21.853



couple of passing appearances that were a little tiki tack and a sweet dog flute scramble. Oh yeah. Yeah. On third down to like a reach and stretch and just barely make the line. Yeah. On like a third and nine. Yeah. After they had

🎙 00:38:40.773



him. He's not. Stretching all five foot six of him out to get that first down. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. So, and the touchdown pass to, who is it to? Andre Reed, the diving catch at the back of the end.

🎙 00:38:54.653



It was super nice. Yeah, it was a nice play. Paige, get the ball back and miss the field goal out of an interior miss field goal. So if Connie are listening, that's your boy. And to be fair, why are they going for a field goal down four points?

🎙 00:39:13.434



That's, you know, Pete Carroll. But Paige has managed to hold the bills to punting at the two minute warning. Um, so the pace gets the ball back with, uh, I think a minute 52 left after the punt. And drive 10 plays, 82 yards, uh, with the play that we just mentioned, the questionable

🎙 00:39:27.434



fourth down conversion where, uh, Sean Jefferson, I'm going to say it gets both feet down because I'm a Patriots fan and, uh, leaning out of bounds catches the ball for the first down. That was a fourth down.

🎙 00:39:48.860



That was fourth down. Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize with the running clock with a running clock, bit then because it caught the third down. Even though he missed, now he caught the third down, got tackled in bounds.

🎙 00:40:02.420



Yeah. And they had no time out so they had to run set and then run the play real quick. Yeah. And just barely converted it. Um, and then I don't know if it was next play couple of plays later. No, so there's four seconds left after that.

🎙 00:40:12.300



That's right. Yeah. So it was exactly the next place. They have one shot at the end zone through the end zone. And there was a pass interference call in the end zone on Terry Glenn, whoever the defender was, doesn't matter.

🎙 00:40:25.544



He, he, he, he, Terry Glenn had a good look at it. And the dude got pushed right in the back. Right. That's good. Yeah. I mean, it was, you think it was a good call. Even on the crap fucking video. Yeah. I think, I think it was a blatant pass interference,

🎙 00:40:35.544



but you never call that. It doesn't matter. Come on. If he doesn't pass an appearance, no, anything was on a Hail Mary, dude. Dude, he got a Hail Mary. It's from the 20 yard line. It's a 20 yard pass. Dude, look at the look at the.

🎙 00:40:48.544



Yeah. There's a shit load of people there. It's a lot of, there's a lot of traffic there, but it's not like a fucking absolute bomb from midfield where it's in the air forever. It's a jump ball. He was a, no, blood.

🎙 00:41:02.544



So fucking zing that thing. And it was right to Terry Glenn. And he got pushed right in the lower back and just fucking, and he bent out. I love that Steve's coming to my side. He used to be like, that's definitely a fucking size. You don't want to do that fucking play the ball.

🎙 00:41:12.544



He didn't play the ball. He pushed the receiver right in the back and the judge was right there at the end zone line. Cause that's where the play was. Cause that's where he's going to see. And he sees the guy just get pushed right in the back. Of course.

🎙 00:41:26.544



Yeah. Right there. You want to hear a quote from tie law himself? Mm hmm. Okay. If I was them, I'd be ticked off too. You never see that, that call on a Hail Mary, which it was. I know where they're coming from. These officials are making way too many calls.

🎙 00:41:37.544



It's getting worse and worse every week. He's on the Patriots and he's completely agree. That's good. Imagine that in this day and age. Imagine the slow to me. So she made a firestorm with that comment.

🎙 00:41:53.544



Twitter would melt down. Well, bell check A would never allow that. That's also kind of kind of comment. You know, yeah. The rules are probably different back then as well. there. I mean, you saw in this game, just rewatching it. How much they're glorifying

🎙 00:42:05.544



hits and stuff. It's just like a little out of date. Yeah, there was a lot more hitting in the defensive backfield just generally. Yeah. But there was still like, I think even on the bill, so chan drive, there was still some

🎙 00:42:21.197



like, really going to call that like, just later the game, you're going to throw the flag there. It's like, okay, they had been calling it tight on the bill's drive. So yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a passing appearance on it. Hail Mary though, outside

🎙 00:42:34.117



of this. I feel like I get something. Hail Mary. And I'm fine with the pretty egregious like tackling the players and Hail Mary's. Well, the tackle grunks. Yeah, exactly. That was one. That one's pretty. That one's like egregious. The one where they tackle Gronk

🎙 00:42:45.957



and the rule. Yeah. And I like I wasn't even that mad about that cause I was like, yeah, it's fucking Hail Mary as we got, you know, how far is that? I feel like wasn't Hail Mary though. It was like 30 yards.

🎙 00:43:02.477



30 yards not that long. Yeah, but Steve, it's a jump ball, right? It's a throw it up and everybody jumps to try and catch it. Well, every ball, blood and so throws is a jump ball. It's true. We just cannot call a passenger.

🎙 00:43:14.340



Bro, I got a broken finger, of course. He actually slung this one in there. He was slinging it. Either way, blood so came back and fucking the next one. You can talk all you want. And you know, this is saying goes to like listening to chief fans talk about, oh, yeah.

🎙 00:43:25.980



Well, you know, if you he didn't lie, if what's his face didn't line up off size and that game's over. It's like, yeah, well, the game, like the page didn't win it on that play. Like you can still make the stops. You can still like make the stops in the in overtime.

🎙 00:43:41.660



So the bills have one play they all they had to do was start page for one play. with this vaunted defense with, you know, Bruce Smith and all those, all the players on it. Well, they did stop. There's no other players.

🎙 00:43:55.820



And then there was a flag thrown so they had stopped for another player. Then he was going to go one by like, Bella checks it is Greg. You got to play every single play just like, you know, this same thing came to bite us in the ass.

🎙 00:44:08.316



And we put Gronk out there on the skip kick coverage and Miami returned it for a touchdown. So you got to play every single play in the game. Steve is absolutely correct. I don't know how these officials are allowed to make those calls.

🎙 00:44:17.916



What do you mean? They get paid. Wait, Phillips quote. Imagine that. Wade Phillips coach. Wade Phillips doesn't understand. Well, let's let's talk about that because of Patriots throw. It's a Ben coat.

🎙 00:44:30.673



Touchdown of Ben coats back in the end zone. Great throw by play. Yeah, absolutely. Great. I mean, let's go to coats. It's a classic. They actually beat it. Oh, yeah, with a rush at his feet, tosses it over the over the end of the corner, the

🎙 00:44:48.153



end zone touch on Ben coats with a fucking finger, too. Yeah, what a touch pass. So it's bills 21 Patriots 23 games over no time left. The bills just walk off the field. There's still an extra point left to do.

🎙 00:45:04.033



And the bills like now we're not coming back out. So fuck it. So the Patriots line up to kick the field goal, but the crowd starts chanting to like go for two go for two. And so they snap it directly out of Vintere who walks

🎙 00:45:19.928



into the end zone for the two point conversion. Oh, you started that Greg? I started that chant. Of course. Good job. Patriots 25 Buffalo 21 game. Quest. And now the now the Patriots and bills are tied at seven and five.

🎙 00:45:32.888



Couple of games back of Miami and the Jets. What about nowadays? They make you still kick the extra point. I feel like it's game over when it's quit touchdown. They do because remember the playoff game between the Saints and the Vikings.

🎙 00:45:49.637



No, they don't make you kick it. They did. They made them come back out. And so they just like the Saints just sent out whoever the fuck like still was partly dressed and there's like stood there and they kicked their shit off.

🎙 00:46:02.317



They don't. They don't make you do it anymore. I feel like overtime is right. I feel like overtime is right. But no, it literally happened. No, there's like a rule of like, there's something to do with like, if there's, if it doesn't change the outcome of the game, you don't have to do it.

🎙 00:46:12.797



But like, there's games where it's like one second left or something that day. I find that hard to believe only because of the money embedding. I think that's why they change it. Greg's right. Having to kick a useless extra point is way harder for Vegas.

🎙 00:46:26.400



Yeah. They'd rather just win outright, you know. Yeah, maybe. Apparently this game was a three and a half point spread for Patriots to which is strange. Really? I know. That's a favorite by one and a half.

🎙 00:46:43.400



Nice. Yeah, I've found conflicting reports on this. Did you? Uh huh. I found this. Who different sources that said it was a Patriots for favor by three and a half. And that this was part of the reason that they brought back review was because

🎙 00:46:57.583



all these betters were all pissed off because they lost money on this game. Interesting. Well, I don't think it would have mattered either way, right? No, if it's one and a half or three and a half.

🎙 00:47:11.463



Yeah. No, because the two point conversion is what changed it. If they kicked the view, they would have won by three. But well, I think the touchdown regardless, if it's one and a half, the Pats now covered because they won.

🎙 00:47:22.204



Right. If it's one and a half, it doesn't matter. If the Pats are favored by three and a half. Then you also got to think that 1998 Vegas lines are probably not as well set as, you know, 2022 Vegas lines.

🎙 00:47:33.244



And maybe a lot more data out there for them to analyze. That's true. You make a good point. All right. You got anything else you want to do? Best and worst. Sure. All right. Greg, you go first. Give me your best and worst. My best was just enjoying

🎙 00:47:46.044



the crowd being there in person. You know, you can't really put a price on that. It's a memory that I'll hold forever in my life that you guys won't hold in your lives. Well, 80, I was the I already went to the Bruins game. So I had no case.

🎙 00:48:00.374



Yes. I got the red socks. Yeah. I do. I stay in my life, you know, my worst is Sam gas. She's a little baby. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I bet you wouldn't say it was face. See, fuck Sam, gash. Yeah, come on down here.

🎙 00:48:14.574



He's still kick your ass. Am I ticked off? You bleeping bed. I'm ticked off. For that official to behave like that, that's just explicit. They cost us the game. What it comes down to is we had something stolen from us and we're ticked off.

🎙 00:48:30.056



Apparently he was a big baby about getting cut by the Pats too. Really? Like he like dedicated the rest of his career is like making the Patriots regret. Cutting him or some shit. How long was it on the Patriots?

🎙 00:48:45.056



Sounds like something that five years. That's not like something that Elle may do, you know? He's like, or even like a... It's the NFL, dude. Even like Rodney Harrison. That's something he would do.

🎙 00:48:58.056



You know, anything to get up for a game. Yeah, that's very, that's very Rodney. Yeah, it does feel very Rodney, right? Alright, Steve, best and worst. You'd go, Andy, I'm still figuring out mine.

🎙 00:49:12.224



Alright, my best was that they announced that the special team coach in this game, who the special teams actually, I thought, did quite a good job. Dante Skarnakya. I still share. And my worst outside of Greg getting the girls games out of me, which is some bullshit, was

🎙 00:49:26.224



your typical Pete Carroll lack of, not focused, well, sort of looking for lack of discipline, I guess, on the last drive, the fourth quarter the bills had on defense. They had to call a timeout one.

🎙 00:49:44.780



They had to burn a timeout because they had 12 men on the field plus two running off when the snap is on to happen. And then like three plays later, there was a flag for 12 men on the field again. And on top of like a couple of passing of fear and some couple just like bullshit, like

🎙 00:49:59.780



penalties right down the end was just like. I can see why the page didn't keep him. This is the type of coach that would fucking throw it from the two yard line with Marshall Lynch, right? He's gonna be a Hall of Fame coach.

🎙 00:50:17.740



Do you think? Ah, with the college? Yeah. Yeah. And see how... Yeah, you put him right next to Dandy Ador would be fun. The failures weighing up Hall of Fame. Steve, he's gonna go into broadcast...

🎙 00:50:29.177



Pete Kale's gonna go into broadcast against Steven and Andy. He's gonna be a great broadcaster. You already heard that. He's gonna be awful. He's gonna hear his go. The entire fucking time. My worst is actually Patriots special teams, Andy.

🎙 00:50:42.177



Well, go fuck yourself then. There was that absolute dime punt hit by Tom Tupa. They have bounced like three times in between the goal line and the one yard line and then they downed it. And then the guy who's downing it had his foot in the end zone.

🎙 00:50:55.958



Actually, they showed the replay the reason they call a touch back is the ball literally bounced on the goal line and then came out. That's why it was bullshit. So it was actually almost the perfect pun missed it by six inches. Tom Tupa BT Dubs punting.

🎙 00:51:11.298



Yes, he had that was a great pun. What else you got? There was a, so it's like a two-play sequence here. All right. It was Robert Edwards trying to go over the pile. Not really his strength and getting immediately the ball popped out and then the ball falls

🎙 00:51:27.284



into a 1998 goal line pile. Oh yeah. And like that was just an absolute. It took like four and a half minutes to untangle the ball. Yeah. Yeah. I'm even a commentator. So like, well, whoever had the ball first definitely doesn't have it anymore.

🎙 00:51:46.924



Yeah. And they're looking at the referee trying to pull it out. They even now to had it. So they did. And I missed it. They did eventually. Yeah. But it took a while. Whoever that was props, because that was an old school fumble pile.

🎙 00:52:04.923



Yeah. Next play was that Robert Edwards touchdown pass, because they're like, well, we ain't going to run it in with Robert Edwards. I try and it was actually really nice. It's like a night. It's like a recent play design, you know, have Ben code set a little screen for the linebacker

🎙 00:52:23.043



trying to cover him and then run right across the goal line and then zip it right to him. That's pretty cool. That was awesome. Cool. All right. Well, that'll do it for 1998. Thanks for taking the trip back in time with us, except for Greg. Even further back in time.

🎙 00:52:38.323



So next week, next episode, whenever that is, might not be next week. We'll be back to 2004 in the AFC divisional game. Who are they playing, Greg? I thought we were doing our special edition Roe v. Wade episode next week. Now we're talking playoffs. More important things to talk about.

🎙 00:52:56.090



know. August the vision will play off. No, we're talking about any apples, Colts coming to Gillette stadium. Ah, the Colts really had the red hot record setting. Uh, any apples, cold. So I believe this was their season where they had three wide receivers

🎙 00:53:17.130



all with over a thousand receiving arts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First date, Manning's record breaking. That year, right? Right. You've been hearing about all year about it. Oh, spare me. Okay. I've heard all that before.

🎙 00:53:40.820



Huh? Well, you'll hear it all again next time on the Patriots day. We're down little

🎙 00:53:56.468